|
September 29, 2004, hopone abuse rep continued posting and defending hopone against
criticism from past (and alleged current) failure to take action against spam from and
support of spam on hopone netork. Text below as an example in which hopone notes their
AUP (Acceptable User Practices) have been amended to allow them to disconnect customers
whose activies get hopone dropped into anti-spam blocklists.
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From: hoponeabuse@gmail.com (HopOne Abuse Department)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: The Effects of Blocklisting (was AGIS IDP Myth)
Date: 27 Sep 2004 22:02:39 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Message-ID:
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.160.0.225
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X-Trace: posting.google.com 1096347760 1286 127.0.0.1 (28 Sep 2004 05:02:40 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 05:02:40 +0000 (UTC)
Xref: news-toy.newsread.com news.admin.net-abuse.email:2479333
Stephen Satchell wrote in message news:<10lauckpgl8s8ed@news.supernews.com>...
> Actually, blocklistings as an "attitude adjuster" has been quite
> effective, judging from the number of people who have come into NANAE
...snip...
> The people here concentrate on MCI, SAVVIS, ChinaNet, HopOne, InterNAP,
> and the other major sewers of the Internet, but they forget there are a
> whole slew (30,000?) OTHER networks who work hard to conform to RFC 1855.
To show how effective a blocklisting is we have actually incorporated
a blocklisting provision in our AUP. A blocklisting is enough to get
a client terminated without question.
Section 15.1.5 of our AUP can be found here (at the bottom):
http://www.hopone.net/aup.php
We do not wait for a blocklisting any more however - we catch them
usually before new blocklistings get made unless they are spam-support
groups that don't actually generate complaints but get busted for
being part of a group (like running DNS servers etc). Our other
subsections under section 15 let us catch users and punish/terminate
them. A blocklisting catches those to slipped under the radar though.
|
In response to revived criticism of hopone in news.admin.net-abuse.email, a representative
of hopone showed up and posted the following defences on September 25, 2004.
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From: hoponeabuse@gmail.com (HopOne Abuse Department)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: Superb Internet/Hopone.com...a long, sordid tale of spam and fraud
Date: 25 Sep 2004 17:04:42 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Message-ID:
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1096157082 4557 127.0.0.1 (26 Sep 2004 00:04:42 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:04:42 +0000 (UTC)
Xref: news-toy.newsread.com news.admin.net-abuse.email:2478168
> > Fast forward to this week, when I get an email from abuse@hopone.net in my
> > mailbox. The email says We have put www.perfect-shareware.com back online.
> > If you feel this customer is doing something illegal, contact the police,
> > not us. The business relationship between Hopone Internet and this customer
> > is none of your business. Do not email us again.
This is an intentional miss-quote. Here is exactly what was said:
# "...
# > I know for a fact that a local computer user, Dan Kokorelli,
# > received spam advertising one of Art Schwartz's domains that
# > redirects to perfect-shareware.com; I advised him to forward
# > it to you, and I know he did so.
#
H This is good.
#
# > Off the record: What's the deal? Is Art paying your parent
# > company a very large amount of money for hosting?
#
H This is quite a rude question and frankly none of your business.
H If you have H nothing more to actually report that has some
H bearing on our AUP please stop contacting us.
H http://support.superb.net/data/aup.php
H
H Anything illegal should be reported to law enforcement.
#
# > Has he threatened you with legal action?
#
H No but even if he did we wouldn't bite - he has had a few
H things to say about you though - which I also don't buy for
H a second. Anyway, we can theoretically shut him down at any
H time as we have the right to do business or not do business
H with anyone we please - I'd just like to have a concrete reason
H to do it before we do.
..."
> > If that's not the deepest, darkest, richest coal-black hat I've ever seen, I
> > don't know what is. I think that next to Hopone, a black hole is positively
> > radiant.
We have cleaned so many spammers off our network in the past year
(since about February) you might want to rethink what you are
implying. Check both lasso's for hopone.net and superb.net at
Spamhaus.net. They are both totally clean now and remain clean. The
old Covesoft address space still has some cleaning to be done though.
> Wow, when I said I expected Hopone to backslide (in a previous thread
> [1] full of their false protestations about cleaning up Covesoft), I
> certainly didn't expect the JATO self-assist you describe them
> arranging there.
We've already cleaned many spammers of of that space and there are
more to come. I do not see any spam eminating from
perfect-shareware.com though. If you have spam complaints, *SEND
THEM*. We can't know about the spam if no one sends in a complaint
about it.
> The standard litany of pro-spam provider lies was interesting. Hopone
> AKA Superb Internet did all of:
> o Pass your abuse report on to the spammer so that the spammer could
> retaliate against you.
This does not happen under any circumstances. This does not happen
for the protection of the complainant as well as to prevent list
washing.
> o Tell you lies about how they haven't received any reports.
We have received no reports about perfect-shareware.com that imply
*SPAM*. We have received complaints (3 in total all from the same
person) indicating they may be involved in some kind of illegal
software trading thing that has something to do with credit card
fraud. We cannot pass judgement on this with out real information.
Please refer to the real quoted text above.
> o Tell you lies about how your report was the only one.
Three from the same person actually. Yes - this is true. Keep in
mind that we just acquired this block of IP addresses from Covesoft so
we didn't receive any complaints before the date of change on the
ARIN.net record (2004-08-12).
> o Admit that spammers have free reign until a Spamhaus or SPEWS
> listing results.
This is not true - check section 15 of our AUP:
http://www.hopone.net/aup.php
This is enforced daily regardless of any listings being added as a
result of any spammers. Spammers do get cut off immediately
regardless of the number of complaints we've received if a third party
block list blocks us (section 15.1.5 of our AUP).
> o Tell you lies about how they'll disconnect customers who violate
> the law.
We did disconnect perfect-shareware.com for two and a half days but
there is no possible way we can possibly ever know if what they are
doing is illegal or not. REPORT IT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT and we will
cooperate with them as we always do.
> o Left the spammer connected.
Actually the client was disconnected, spoke to the client directly
several times and realized we have no evidence that any of this is
illegal. The client was reconnected since we do not have a valid
reason for termination.
1) send spam complaints to abuse@hopone.net
2) contact law enforcement if something is illegal but not related to
spam
Those two things cannot be that difficult to do.
> Anyway, they did far more than just slide back into their old ways
> after their false protestations of cleanup. I think that this time
> they must have augured in at a minimum of Mach 2.
You have to realize we just acquired this Covesoft (mess of a) network
with totally unknown customers on it. We don't know what kind of junk
they are pulling until we get valid complaints and/or subpoenas
telling us to take stuff down. If someone can get a software
manufacturer to actually send a DMCA notification we could take action
or get law enforcement to actually contact us we can take action.
Until that happens there is nothing we can do.
SPAM is totally seperate from the above statement. We take action on
spammers every single time they exceed our complaint threshold as set
out in our AUP. We just shutdown 44 servers for MS Messenger spam
(UDP:1026 spam) as well.
NOTE: We do not respond to pressure like this - we value our customers
rights as long as they do not violate our AUP. If you can show a
violation of our AUP that is clear we can take action against an
abuser.
|
The post above was accompanied by the following reply to another news.admin.net-abuse.email post.
The hopone abuse representative is unhappy it appears with many reporting their continued spam support.
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From: hoponeabuse@gmail.com (HopOne Abuse Department)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: Superb Internet/Hopone.com...a long, sordid tale of spam and fraud
Date: 25 Sep 2004 17:23:09 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 99
Message-ID:
References: <20040924145813.17479.00001253@mb-m05.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.160.0.225
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1096158190 5796 127.0.0.1 (26 Sep 2004 00:23:10 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:23:10 +0000 (UTC)
Xref: news-toy.newsread.com news.admin.net-abuse.email:2478174
I just realized that your entire post was basically misquoted and a
lot of it was just a plain lie. Why aren't you working *WITH* us
against this person rather than against us? You aren't making any
friends by lying about us.
tacitr@aol.com (Tacit) wrote in message news:<20040924145813.17479.00001253@mb-m05.aol.com>...
> Periodically for the past couple of years, I and other readers of newsgroups
> like comp.graphics.apps.photoshop, alt.graphics.photoshop, and the like have
> been spammed by a particularly slimy spammer named Art Schwartz, who collects
> email addresses from graphics-related newsgroups and spams his Web site,
> www.perfect-shareware.com, where he says one can get Photoshop and other
> high-ticket graphics apps for $29.95. It's a scam, of course; he's a credit
> card fraudster, not a pirate, and those dumb enough to fall for the bait get
> (1) a list of pirate Web sites and (2) big credit card bills.
You did not tell us this. If you send us the list of pirate websites
he sent, we will terminate him permanently.
You should be reporting the fraud to law enforcement though.
> He's been hosted by an outfit called Cove Software Systems ("Covesoft") for
> years. Covesoft has for years ignored LARTs and permitted him to spam.
We have received no reports of spam for this particular client since
we took over the address space 2004-08-12.
You can check what IP's have received complaints like this (if you
check this URL quickly you might get to see a complaint listed):
http://abuse.hopone.net/spam/66.148.80.111
To check perfect-shareware.com's complaints you would do this:
http://abuse.hopone.net/spam/209.40.127.50
> Recently, as these sorts of outfits do, Covesoft went titsup and got bought by
> Superb Internet, the retail marketing arm of Hopone. So when some spam showed
> up in my main email address and one of my spamtrap addresses, I sent 'em along
> to Superb's abuse address.
You lie, you did not send us anything about spam. You also refuse to
send any facts to anyone (either here in the news group or to our
abuse address). We need actual facts, not accusations and B.S. We
can't just take a client down because someone accuses them of
something - that would be rediculous.
> The next day, I get a rash of threatening emails from the spammer. Okay,
> that's not cool--so I pick up the phone and have a nice long chat with a
> person at Superb who identified himself as the head of their abuse department.
It wasn't that long, it was about 10 minutes and you sent a spam
report to a STAFF member in technical support you doofus! Maybe they
sent it to the client. The first time you called was apparently a
few weeks previous to when I talked to. You spoke to one of our
technical support people and they actually forwarded your complaint to
me. That person may have also sent it to the client.
If you are reporting abuse, send it to abuse@hopone.net - not
technical support. Abuse will never send your complaint to the client
- unless its a DMCA compliant notification in which case we have to.
> He claimed Superb/Hopone have strict zero-tolerance spam policies. Okay, I
> ask, why is this Web site still up? We haven't received any complaints, he
> says. Ah, but you have, I tell him, from me, on tus and such a date, with
> these headers--would you like me to send you the spam again? Oh, yes, we have
> received complaints, he says, but our policy is not to take any action unless
> we receive a number of complaints from different people. You have, I say--I
> can give you the email addresses of about a half-dozen Usenet readers who've
> LARTed you, there's a conversation on one of the Photoshop newsgroups about it
> right now.
*sigh* this is getting old. Send the complaints to abuse@hopone.net
every time you get/see a spam message. The system is almost automated
for cryin' outloud. It can't get much simpler than that.
> So then he says, Well, the official policy of my bosses is that as long as our
> customers pay their bills, they can do anything they want, so long as what
> they're doing is not illegal and doesn't get us into SPEWS or Spamhaus. Sez I,
This is a lie. I actually told you - this *use to be* how things were
done and since I've taken control of the abuse department this is no
longer how things are done. Spammers get shutdown as a same-day
service (like a dry cleaner).
> spamming addresses scraped from newsgroups is illegal, the CAN-SPAM law is
> right on point about this. You're right, it is, I'll pull the site right now,
> he says, and sure enough, Perfect-Shareware.com stops resolving that
> afternoon.
Yay. It was shutdown as I stated for investigation. I found no
evidence that anything illegal is/was going on. Send your details of
illegal behaviour to law enforcement and they can get a subpoena for
us to search the machine (and provide details) or obtain a search
warrant to search it themselves.
> Fast forward to this week..................
My reply on this was posted earlier - you can find it in this thread.
This is the *LAST* time I will review this thread so if you have a
problem with whatever was said here, contact abose@hopone.net.
|
Well, if what the post below to news.admin.net-abuse.email says is true, so much
for hopone's turn from the darkside. This was posted to nanae Sept. 24, 2004.
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Lines: 51
X-Admin: news@aol.com
From: tacitr@aol.com (Tacit)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Date: 24 Sep 2004 18:58:13 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Superb Internet/Hopone.com...a long, sordid tale of spam and fraud
Message-ID: <20040924145813.17479.00001253@mb-m05.aol.com>
Xref: news-toy.newsread.com news.admin.net-abuse.email:2477511
Periodically for the past couple of years, I and other readers of newsgroups
like comp.graphics.apps.photoshop, alt.graphics.photoshop, and the like have
been spammed by a particularly slimy spammer named Art Schwartz, who collects
email addresses from graphics-related newsgroups and spams his Web site,
www.perfect-shareware.com, where he says one can get Photoshop and other
high-ticket graphics apps for $29.95. It's a scam, of course; he's a credit
card fraudster, not a pirate, and those dumb enough to fall for the bait get
(1) a list of pirate Web sites and (2) big credit card bills.
He's been hosted by an outfit called Cove Software Systems ("Covesoft") for
years. Covesoft has for years ignored LARTs and permitted him to spam.
Recently, as these sorts of outfits do, Covesoft went titsup and got bought by
Superb Internet, the retail marketing arm of Hopone. So when some spam showed
up in my main email address and one of my spamtrap addresses, I sent 'em along
to Superb's abuse address.
The next day, I get a rash of threatening emails from the spammer. Okay, that's
not cool--so I pick up the phone and have a nice long chat with a person at
Superb who identified himself as the head of their abuse department.
He claimed Superb/Hopone have strict zero-tolerance spam policies. Okay, I ask,
why is this Web site still up? We haven't received any complaints, he says. Ah,
but you have, I tell him, from me, on tus and such a date, with these
headers--would you like me to send you the spam again? Oh, yes, we have
received complaints, he says, but our policy is not to take any action unless
we receive a number of complaints from different people. You have, I say--I can
give you the email addresses of about a half-dozen Usenet readers who've LARTed
you, there's a conversation on one of the Photoshop newsgroups about it right
now.
So then he says, Well, the official policy of my bosses is that as long as our
customers pay their bills, they can do anything they want, so long as what
they're doing is not illegal and doesn't get us into SPEWS or Spamhaus. Sez I,
spamming addresses scraped from newsgroups is illegal, the CAN-SPAM law is
right on point about this. You're right, it is, I'll pull the site right now,
he says, and sure enough, Perfect-Shareware.com stops resolving that afternoon.
Fast forward to this week, when I get an email from abuse@hopone.net in my
mailbox. The email says We have put www.perfect-shareware.com back online. If
you feel this customer is doing something illegal, contact the police, not us.
The business relationship between Hopone Internet and this customer is none of
your business. Do not email us again.
If that's not the deepest, darkest, richest coal-black hat I've ever seen, I
don't know what is. I think that next to Hopone, a black hole is positively
radiant.
|
Giving yet more credence to their committment to end spam abuse from their part of the Net,
hopone abuse posted the following to news.admin.net-abuse.email on August 16, 2004.
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From: HopOne Abuse Department
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: [SPEWS REMOVAL REQUEST] S1611
Organization: HopOne Communications Inc.
Reply-To: abuse@hopone.net
Message-ID:
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 trialware
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 26
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:31:50 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.90.166.2
X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca
X-Trace: nntp-post.primus.ca 1092687746 209.90.166.2 (Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:22:26 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:22:26 EDT
Xref: news-toy.newsread.com news.admin.net-abuse.email:2453536
Hello Everyone,
HopOne Communications recently acquired all assets and customers of
Cove Software Systems (Covesoft). Covesoft was unfortunately a
spam-haven and we are making every effort we can to now remove all
spammers (of those we acquired). The ARIN.net records for all
Covesoft netblocks were changed to HopOne's POC's on 2004-08-12.
The previous owner of Covesoft will not be paid for clients who are
deemed to be spammers so it is in our best interest to be sure we
remove them all (to reduce the amount we pay to Covesoft). We don't
want to pay for clients who we cannot keep on our network because they
violate our AUP.
SPECIFICS:
The client referenced in SPEWS record S1611 (equalaMAIL) (aka EQM) was
terminated by us months ago at which time they procured the services
of Covesoft. They were *not* moved over to our network *AND* they
did not pay their invoice (knowing we would just terminate them again
anyway).
Please delist us from S1611:
209.40.102.62/32 ! [1] equalaMAIL, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1611
209.40.102.0/24 ! [1] equalaMAIL, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S1611
Thank you.
|
In early August Hopone Internet posted the following to news.admin.net-abuse.email. The spammer which
they terminated with prejudice was one Laura Betterly, a woman who has been on TV and written up in
the Wall Street Journal by clueless journalists who did not seem to quite grasp they were interviewing
one of the most prolific spammers in the United States. It is nice to see two things: 1) Hopone return
to the fold of responsible Internet provider, and 2) Laura Betterly get what she and her spam operation
had coming to them. Hopefully SPEWS will also list her next ISP, and they, too, will do the right thing and
immediately terminate her as a customer. And then one can hope that cycle will now repeat ad infinitum.
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From: HopOne Abuse Department
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: [SPEWS INQUIRY] S1458
Message-ID:
References: <8855h0d5apompc126866nim9rcai2tnqip@4ax.com> <10h56ldcble6j39@corp.supernews.com>
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 48
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 14:12:42 -0700
NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.90.166.2
X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca
X-Trace: nntp-post.primus.ca 1091739835 209.90.166.2 (Thu, 05 Aug 2004 17:03:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 17:03:55 EDT
Organization: Primus Canada
Xref: news-toy.newsread.com news.admin.net-abuse.email:2450207
>====
>SPEWS always appreciates it when a spammer publicly admits what they do.
>
>Phone: 727-736-2799
>
>
Thank you, this is exactly the information we needed. I've terminated
the account effective immediately (the server has already been
disconnected).
Termination notice sent to terminated client after actual
termination/disconnection:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...
Hello,
We were unaware of your practices prior to this. Had we been aware of
what your business was you would have been terminated sooner.
In addition to this fact, you have been added to the SPEWS database as
a spammer and thus had our IP addresses black listed. The following
information has been given to us by SPEWS to back up their claim
against you.
The phone number on this page:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:MWQBj6kMm-IJ:www.retailthings.com/drc/contact.htm+727-736-2799&hl=en
Can be searched for using this page:
http://www.google.com/search?q=727-736-2799
The primary reason for your account's termination is that the results
on the page above indicate that you are a proponent, active performer
and supporter of spam operations.
The secondary reason for your account's termination is that you have
caused our IP(s) to be blacklisted by SPEWS.
This type of marketing and/or business practice is not tolerated on
our network and as such your account has been terminated.
More information:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://209.157.64.200/focus/news/794137/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/793992/posts
http://spews.org/html/S1458.html
..."
|
The text below was my post to news.admin.net-abuse.email to a post from someone
who had been posting as abuse@hopone.net. There have been many complaints of spam
and spam support by hopone.net, and many claims they have been unresponsive to
complaints in the anti-spam forums. In this post, the hopone.net representative
is trying to claim that they are not required to have a postmaster@hopone.net
address. This while posting from abuse@hopone.net. You will not the slight logical
disconnect.
|
From: abuse@hopone.net (HopOne Internet Abuse)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: Paging hopeone.net - "postmaster@hopone.net" still bounces
Date: 15 Mar 2004 23:20:47 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
In article <2af41466.0403152320.6f7fe0d@posting.google.com>, abuse@hopone.net says...
>
>Verbila wrote in message news:...
>> ___________________________________________________
>> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at umail4.superb.net.
>> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
>> addresses.
>> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>>
>> :
>> 207.228.228.11 does not like recipient.
>> Remote host said: 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown
>> Giving up on 207.228.228.11.
>> ___________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Do you intend to fix that?
>>
>> -verbila
>
>RFC 2142 states:
>"...
> Various Internet documents have specified mailbox names to be used
> when reaching the operators of the new service; for example,
>[RFC822
> 6.3, C.6] requires the presence of a mailbox
>name
> on all hosts that have an SMTP server.
>..."
>
>HopOne does not have an SMTP server. HopOne is a teir one proivider
>of connectivity, environmental controls and physical space. HopOne
>email is handled by a HopOne client superb.net.
>
>%host hopone.net
>hopone.net has address 207.228.225.4
>hopone.net mail is handled (pri=10) by smtp2.superb.net
>hopone.net mail is handled (pri=20) by umail1.dca1.superb.net
>
>All postmaster functions are handled by the postmaster for superb.net.
And that of course explains your address,
From: abuse@hopone.net (HopOne Internet Abuse).
So, even if you try to wriggle around by claiming superb.net is doing
your email for you (at least someone is doing something for you, you
do not appear capable yourself), they are virtually hosting your
domain, email is being received at hopone.net, and you should have
a postmaster@hopone.net. It is required by the RFCs, abuse@ is only
suggested. So you have the suggested, but not the required. Oh, my
head, must have more coffee.
Hey, here is an idea. Why the )(*(*Y don't you phone (or send email,
your choice) to postmaster @ superb.net, or your friendly superb.net
customer representative, and ask them to pretty please set up
a postmaster@hopone.net address for you. You know, the RFC required
address that you should have, especially since you have an abuse
address, it is only logical.
You know, in closing, I would like to say that over the past 7 years
or so hanging out here in nanae I have seen some lame posts from
ISPs and service providers who have gotten themselves into trouble
with their Internet neighbors because of their business practices,
but your post quoted above just about takes the cake.
I think I'll put this on http://mainsleazespam.com as an example
of how ISPs will wriggle like fish on a griddle sometimes to avoid
doing the right thing in regard to abuse from their networks.
P.S. You misspelled 'tier' as in 'tier one'.
--
Ron.
http://edgeinfotech.com
http://mainsleazespam.com
http://iuhoosiers.com